DNA Owners Club

DNA Owners => 2fifty Chat => Topic started by: Graham2 on November 23, 2018, 03:14:12 PM

Title: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 23, 2018, 03:14:12 PM
I know this is not strictly the right place to be saying 'Hello' but in an effort to kill two birds with one stone this is my first post and also a request for guidance, please.   I recently bought a DNA Cali 250 kit which I am anxious to get started on but I want to be sure I get the best/easier Z3 for the job.   I know for example that it is better to have 'remote' central locking and I wondered if there are any other items that it would be desirable to have and anything to avoid.   Is the 3.0 litre car a good idea for example, is air con. a good addition or a pain in the .... when it comes to the build?
Any help would be much appreciated.      I would just add that ALL the 250 Cali build threads are amazing and if I can produce something nearly as good I will be very pleased indeed.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 23, 2018, 04:46:54 PM
Hi Graham2,
I,m currently building a 250.
The main thing is you need a widebody z3 as I belive the rear axle is narrower on non widebody. I have a 2.8 with air con which has not compromised the build and I think it is a bonus.
I,m in West Yorks if passing through your welcome to call in for a chat
On 2.8 and 3.0ltr check boot floor as spot welds can pull through  also diff mounts too
MADMAN 8)
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 23, 2018, 05:36:53 PM
Hi Madman,
Thanks, that helps as I also felt that air con would be a bonus.  I only wish I lived a little closer as I would certainly pop round to compare notes but unfortunately I'm in Dorset near Shaftesbury, so a bit of a hike!    What stage are you at and have you hit any particular problems, also have you any pictures of your progress to date?
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 23, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
Hi Graham 2

Mine has A/C as I thought it would be useful....but when I was building it the A/C gubins got in the way a bit, and, now I have driven it quite a lot I am not sure I would bother with it if I built another...it rarely gets used.

Without it mounting a radio in front of the gearstick becomes much easier as there is more room.

I would also recommend a clutch change before you start stripping the donor, however many miles it has done, just as a precaution (mine cost £325 all in)

I wish I had chosen a donor that was a similar colour to my final choice, just to get a match ish under the bonnet. Don't worry about the interior colour too much as just about all of it gets binned.

Get a straight 6....don't bother with the 1.9....then you get performance close to the original.

Hope all goes well.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: jaguartvr on November 24, 2018, 08:20:03 AM
The later 3.0 cars are painted black under the bonnet so can be painted any colour.
Go for aircon if possible.
Try and find one that has the polished alloy windscreen surround, looks much better than the DNA version.
Don't bother with 4 pots. I have a 2.2 and a 2.8 and struggle to notice any difference in performance. Would suggest a 2.8/3.0
as first choice.
Run the car for at least a month and put it through an MOT before starting to chop it up.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: firefife on November 24, 2018, 10:29:21 AM
My donor is a 1999 2.8, Fantastic drive. The 3.0 would probably be better but usually much more expensive.
Mine has A/C & as John James has done I built a box to hold a short chassis radio, looks quite good although I think John's looks better. Saying that, mine has a lid under which I have my heated seat switches & my A/C switch (a bit tight, but it works).
Steve's thoughts on the alloy windscreen surround is sound, but cheap enough to buy from BMW (£100), that is what I have done.
I also have cruise control, which I use all the time as most of the shows we attend are motorway bound, just a small modification to the steering column surround.
My donor colour was dark green & 250 is light blue, noticeable when bonnet is up but not glaringly.
I feel that there should be a 6th gear on the Z3, just feels that it would easily take it. I ran mine for a couple of months before starting my build & also changed all suspension, brake discs,etc. & steering joint, easier without all the bodywork around. I had to put the original springs back on all around as mine was grounding over speed humps & even some country roads, all okay now though.
Just take time getting gapping, etc right. good luck mate & look forward to seeing your finished car ;)
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 24, 2018, 12:26:47 PM
Thank you for your replies, there are some very useful pointers amongst them.  I didn't know that the 3.0litre cars were black under the bonnet for example and if my research is correct the original 250's were also black under the bonnet?  Delighted with the responses from you, if anything further comes to mind please add it in.
Just out of interest I'm near Shaftesbury in Dorset is anyone in this neck of the woods building or has built a 250 Cali, I have only seen one in the flesh and that was JohnJames white car at Bristol Classic Car Show early this year.    If there was anyone building a car it would be useful to compare notes.   Thanks again for all the feedback.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: jaguartvr on November 24, 2018, 03:29:18 PM
What dealer supplied them for £100 and do you have the part number. I can only find the part numbers seperately and priced that way as well!
Thanks
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 24, 2018, 03:47:03 PM
The later 3.0 cars are painted black under the bonnet so can be painted any colour.
Go for aircon if possible.
Try and find one that has the polished alloy windscreen surround, looks much better than the DNA version.
Don't bother with 4 pots. I have a 2.2 and a 2.8 and struggle to notice any difference in performance. Would suggest a 2.8/3.0
as first choice.
Run the car for at least a month and put it through an MOT before starting to chop it up.

Agree...MOT before dismantling is essential....as is driving it about a bit and having a diagnostic dump....picking up snags before you have a lovely paint job makes perfect sense. There are a few things that, although not impossible, get very difficult to change post body-swop....like some of the relays...easy peasey job when in Z3 guise, bit of a PITA when the new body is on.

I didn't know that the 3L were black under the bonnet either! Although prices for them are on the up...rapidly becoming a classic in their own right...getting out of the sensible range of donor vehicle price for most of us.

A good donor is the key to a good finished vehicle...

As to the windscreen surround, there are two schools of thought, here is my opinion;

There is no doubt that the BMW chrome surround looks very good, however on the real 250 the front angle of the side windows was chromed and therefore opened with the door. The chrome stripping down the A pillar is supposed to replicate, as near as it can, the separation of windscreen surround chrome and door surround chrome. (and at the same time making the A pillar appear thinner than it actually is) Although of course it is just an illusion when the doors are shut. Done properly and carefully and getting the angles right, it looks really good with the chrome strips....you do tend to get a sweat on doing it though!

Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 24, 2018, 06:22:30 PM
Paint the outer of inner wings as you can see through when door open you only need three or four inch on door gap I just carried on.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 24, 2018, 06:26:20 PM
Rear on
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 24, 2018, 06:27:33 PM
More
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 24, 2018, 07:10:08 PM
Blimey....really cracking on now.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 24, 2018, 07:48:20 PM
Wow another great job, just like the other build threads, the final picture of the dash to me seems the most complicated.  As some of you have completed your builds what areas of the build presented the greatest challenge?
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 24, 2018, 10:15:36 PM
The wiring ;D but it turned out easy, I had a sparky do it ;D ;D
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: OXO on November 25, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
Nice one Steve !   
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: firefife on November 25, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
Steve (Jaguartvr), I got my windscreen surrounds from Vines of Gatwick, my nearest BMW dealer in Crawley, but any BMW dealer will supply them as they are BMW parts.
Comes in 3 pieces, the two side & top & a small fillet piece. I also bought a 'fixing' kit that I didn't have to use as I fitted after fixing the body on so has to trim off the bottoms.
The part numbers are    P  B51.16.8.398.505    -    SIDE COVER (170574/COVER)    £37.85 + VAT
                                   P  B51.16.8.398.506    -    SIDE COVER (170569/COVER)    £37.85 + VAT
                                   P  B51.16.8.398.507    -    FILLET JOINT(170574/COVER)    £  3.86 + VAT
The bits I didn't use      P  B51.71.8.226.190     -   CLIPS           (170574/CLIP)        £  4.00 + VAT
                                                                                                            VAT         £16.71
                                                                                                         TOTAL        £100.27
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: firefife on November 25, 2018, 10:45:45 AM
Graham2, Something to bear in mind is the fuse box access once body is on. I trimmed the 'catch' at the rear down as it won't allow the lid to pivot enough to get it off.
Most people put a strap on to hold it in place but I hadn't & now a bit difficult to fit with body on so I made a swivel bracket up & secured by the near side bonnet bump stop. I have to loosen a 13mm nut each time I need to change a fuse.
Also, there is a vane in front of the rear fuses that I had to dremmel off to get access to the rear (far N/S) bank of fuses. A fiddly job to get at them but possible - I had to change one yesterday).
As mentioned earlier, everything is accessible but some are more awkward with the kit on. Awareness & preparation beforehand goes a long way.
Good luck buddy
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 25, 2018, 03:37:40 PM
The wiring ;D but it turned out easy, I had a sparky do it ;D ;D

The wiring....quite a game....because I did it myself.

(touch wires together....if they don't spark or blow a fuse, join em up)
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 25, 2018, 05:39:28 PM
Thanks to everyone for your tips, some of which will make more sense to me when I get the donor car and start removing panels.   I will probably print off, a bit old fashioned I know, copies of the helpful information so as I can refer to them during the strip down and build.    Thanks again, your help is much appreciated. Graham
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: jaguartvr on November 25, 2018, 07:07:58 PM
Have a look on the madabout forum, in the trobute section, Eric Holms (Andy) build. Different kit but a lot of helpful Z3 information, including wiring (but not the instruments).
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Mechman on November 26, 2018, 04:54:58 PM
Hi Graham 2, I agree with most of what the other guys are advised. I went for a 1999 2.8 with ac ,I had the vehicle painted in a blue which is close to the original BMW colour. Check the vehicle service history for a guide to it's general condition.I was lucky enough to find a local car with only a few prior owners and I knocked down the price because of a few small dents and scratch's. I have replaced the lower front arms, fitted adjustable front struts, and adjustable rear springs along with new discs and callipers. I had the vehicle checked out by a BMW specialist and serviced before I started the build but I think I should have replaced the clutch as well.The main difference with my build is I have fitted knock on wire wheels,a bit expensive but I think worth it. I have also fitted steel bumpers again not cheap but they finish the vehicle off. Progress has been a bit slow on my build mainly because I keep driving it! But it's off the road now to do the interior and the electrics which I have been putting off. If you want a chat or to poke around my car I live on the edge of the New Forest near Southampton.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on November 27, 2018, 10:39:13 AM
Hi Mechman, great to hear from you, I am often in Southampton and know the city well.   I regularly travel on the A31 from Ringwood through Cadnam to Southampton.   The posts are all very interesting and helpful as I am at the stage of getting a donor.    I am currently completing the restoration of a Datsun 260z, about another 2-3 months should see it sorted.     I thought if I get a z3 now and run it around for the 2-3 months, get to know it, I will start dismantling in March'ish.   You know ,of course, what they say about the best laid plans!    Thank you for the offer of looking over your car, I will certainly take you up on that, there is no substitute for actually looking at something and chatting to the person who did the work, that opportunity is much appreciated.     Thanks again Mechman, I will message you to arrange a convenient moment.  Cheers, Graham
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: jaguartvr on November 30, 2018, 08:41:07 AM
Was playing with my sons 2.2 and this also is black under the bonnet and boot, quite a late one, 2002. So it is not just the 3.0 but probably all late cars but I don't know when they changed to black.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 30, 2018, 04:32:29 PM
Hi Graham 2, I agree with most of what the other guys are advised. I went for a 1999 2.8 with ac ,I had the vehicle painted in a blue which is close to the original BMW colour. Check the vehicle service history for a guide to it's general condition.I was lucky enough to find a local car with only a few prior owners and I knocked down the price because of a few small dents and scratch's. I have replaced the lower front arms, fitted adjustable front struts, and adjustable rear springs along with new discs and callipers. I had the vehicle checked out by a BMW specialist and serviced before I started the build but I think I should have replaced the clutch as well.The main difference with my build is I have fitted knock on wire wheels,a bit expensive but I think worth it. I have also fitted steel bumpers again not cheap but they finish the vehicle off. Progress has been a bit slow on my build mainly because I keep driving it! But it's off the road now to do the interior and the electrics which I have been putting off. If you want a chat or to poke around my car I live on the edge of the New Forest near Southampton.

Mechman, out of interest, what wheels did you fit....genuine Borranis?

Just that when I was at a show a bloke who knew a lot about cars mentioned that the only thing he would change on mine would be the bolt on wires for genuine knock ons....but what a price   :o
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: MADMAN on November 30, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
my 250 is not finished yet, I have a set of bolt on wires that came with kit as I bought an unstarted kit from a guy who was too busy to build it after DNA stopped selling them.
I have toyed with the idea of fitting Borranis but like you begrudge paying that price for the few people who would know the difference
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: jaguartvr on November 30, 2018, 06:48:21 PM
Smash on the Tribute forum bought knock ons fron Dayton in Oz. Much cheaper than MWS bolt ons including splines and triple eared spinners.
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5710&page=6

I have 2 sets of bolt on wires, one set from MWS and one from Dayton. The Daytons weigh almost half as much and have a much smaller central hun so look much better than the MWS wheels.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on November 30, 2018, 08:21:38 PM
These look really great.....but I wouldn't have a clue how to work out which ones would fit.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Graham2 on December 01, 2018, 10:40:23 AM
There doesn't appear to be any consistency regarding the under bonnet area being painted black, other than black cars I've not found any whilst looking locally ish for a 2.8 or 3.0 donor car.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Ian22 on May 14, 2019, 11:22:57 AM
Hi all,

I am new to the DNA forum (apologies for not posting in the new member's section, but this thread looked like the right one for me to start on). Like graham2 I am just embarking on a 250 Cal, and looking at getting a donor. I have read literally EVERY post in this section of the forum, so am reasonably up to speed, but I just wanted to clarify on a couple things before buying a donor.


I have heard that the rear clam doesnt fit all z3s (something to do with the boot surrounding needing to be cut away). Does the clam fit any of the Z3's (narrow body, widebody, pre/post facelift) or doesn't it matter which body style is chosen?

Secondly, after reading some posts, it seems that the narrow body rear axle is preferred by some that have finished their car, so as to get wire wheels fitting correctly under the bodywork. Does anyone think this is an issue I should be considering in getting a donor? (I would ideally like to get a 2.8, but just want to know what issues I will be facing if I make that decision)


Thirdly, the chrome windscreen surround looks great, but I understand the BMW fitting kit can only be applied to '98 models and later (I assume by post '98 that means it only can be fitted to post facelift cars). Does that narrow my search down to only post '98 models, or do you think I shouldn't be too concerned about that in a donor.


I am looking forward to cracking on with this kit, and I keep reading through all your amazing build threads are inspiration.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: beemaman on May 14, 2019, 10:18:01 PM
Hi buddy
Do you already have a 250 Dna Cali kit ?
I’m sure there’s lots of advice on here from previous dna 250 owners
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Ian22 on May 15, 2019, 04:59:02 PM
The kit is sitting in my garage next to a spare space for a z3. Just looking for the right donor, so all tips appreciated, so as to avoid unnecessary jobs.
It is probably going to be an autumn start, so the plan is to use the summer to get the right donor and sort out any issues that come with the car, before making a start on the kit. Any help appreciated!
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on May 16, 2019, 07:30:58 PM
When you get your donor don't forget to take a photo of the vin plate....very difficult to see once you put the new body on as it disappears under the front wing.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Ian22 on May 17, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
Thanks for the tip.

From reading through the builds, it seems that most issues can be worked around if needed (after market remote central locking for example)

The conundrum I am trying to figure out, is what year car to go for. I read that pre '98 Z3s cars cant have a chrome windscreen surround fitted (and, looking at all your finished builds, it looks like a good option to have). So, has anyone found a work around for the pre '97 cars (does the chrome tape look good for example, or perhaps chrome paint over the existing surround?)  And secondly, does the kit fit all z3 models (pre and post facelift)?

Assuming it must be post '97 for the chrome screen surround option, but also pre '99 for the pre-facelift style, then that rather limits the options to just a '98/99 model. Any help appreciated
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Sir Percival on May 17, 2019, 11:51:41 AM
The factory fitted chrome window surround looks great, no denying it ....but there is a reason that DNA used chrome stick on strips. On the original cars the chrome strip that runs up the front of the window was actually part of the door and therefore opened with the door.

The use of two chrome strips in this area is for two reasons; to replicate this feature of the original (although obviously only with the door shut) and to give the impression that the windscreen surround in this area is thinner than it actually is ... again more like the original.

So you pays your money and takes your choice.
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Ian22 on May 20, 2019, 06:42:59 PM
Great, that is really helpful and I am getting a clearer picture of what I am after.

Does anyone know if the kit fits both pre and post facelift cars?
Title: Re: Buying the right Z3.
Post by: Jez on August 18, 2019, 06:08:56 PM
I think the criteria for the body kit is that it must be a wide body. I'm not sure if post face-lift also means wide body (I think it did) but its all about the back axle width more than anything else.
BTW I have a nice late model 2002 2.2 donor sitting on next doors drive which could be available. Currently on SORN but has a superb engine and gearbox, really sweet.