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DNA Owners => Build Threads => Topic started by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:30:38 PM

Title: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:30:38 PM
I'm about to start converting my 2000 (X) reg 3.0i Z3 into a DNA 2fifty.

I bought 'most' of a kit a couple of months ago and I've been waiting for the bad weather to kick in before retiring the Z3 and transforming it into a beautiful 2fifty. I'd like to record my progress on here and to share my experiences as well as pick up hints and tips from the many excellent examples that I've been oggling on here over the past few months. :-)

My original plan was to build a Tribute 250 SWB California but, after a bit of persuasion, I decided to go for the 2fifty simply because of the stunning looks.
Fortunately for me, very fortunately in fact, Justin's place of work is in my home town and he has kindly let me use his facilities to convert my Z3.

I've got a couple of 'Before' images and the first 'During' ones which I'll post below. I've also got a couple of questions which I hope someone will be able to help me with. One of the photo's shows what brackets and fixings came with my kit. Having looked at the video I know that I'm missing some items and there may be others. I wonder if someone would be kind enough to take a look at what I've got and help me to build a list of what's missing.

In addition to these brackets I've got some heavy metal bumper sections and, I believe, all of the fibreglass body parts. but time will tell.

Things that I know that I'm missing include the template for cutting out the end of the door where the lock access is (The cut out is visible at around 6 minutes and 10 seconds into the build video). I also think that I'm missing the door latch plates (5:42) and at least one of the glue turntables.

I can get by without the template and the glue turntables but if anyone knows where to get the door latch fixings and if anyone can spot what else I'm missing I would very much appreciate your input.

OK, here goes some photo's. My plan is to build the body this winter and then have a go at the interior next winter...
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:50:43 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:52:37 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:55:13 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 05:55:42 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
And here's a photo of the brackets etc. that I do have.

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Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 06:10:20 PM
And more or less what it looks like now. This is it with the panels off and on its way to the cleaners.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 06:15:38 PM
I got the car onto a fork lift and gave it a thorough cleaning. Overall the body is in excellent condition. There's a bit of rust at the front and rear edge of the sills which has rubbed off nicely. The exposed metal will get treated and fully protected before anything else happens. All of the panels are in excellent condition with the exception of the sills which are still good enough that someone has already bought them on ebay.
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Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: MADMAN on October 14, 2019, 06:48:59 PM
If fitting DNA 250 kit you will need your rear quaters for fixing kit too, also the three captive nuts that hold the boot brackets
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 14, 2019, 07:13:04 PM
Yes, they're going back on tomorrow. Tomorrow is panel cutting day :-)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: MADMAN on October 14, 2019, 07:18:25 PM
Glad you havnt sold them
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 15, 2019, 11:02:49 PM
Well, I've kinda stalled...

I've got past the removing stuff stage and started on the adding stuff phase only to find that the kit is missing some significant bits and peices of metalwork. I've posted a list of known missing items in the general for sale area http://www.dnaoc.co.uk/index.php/topic,5140.0.html (http://www.dnaoc.co.uk/index.php/topic,5140.0.html) and Firefife has helped me identify a bunch of stuff which must have made it into the more recent kits.

If anyone reading this can help me to find suppliers I would be very grateful.

If not then it's time to start making stuff...
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on October 17, 2019, 09:01:06 AM
I'm feeling a bit more confident about making progress with the exception of the wiper motor bracket which I'm struggling to source. Anyone got a drawing that I can work from or a spare one hanging around their garage?

I expect that I can source the other items from somewhere or other, I'm thinking here of the internal door handle and window switches. I know that there are dished wire wheels, gear sticks, exhasust systems (and a nice exhaust snap fitting) on some websites so those items should be fine.

While I look at resolving the component supply issue I'm going to crack on with renewing the various suspension / braking related bits.

Yesterday I removed the door hinge shims and fitted the door opening spacers. I also loosly mounted the bonnet catch bracket. I believe that I have a very early version of the kit and so some of the improvements that were built in to later kits still require a bit of work for me. I've had to trim the front edge of the original Z3 bonnet catch, not just to remove the lip but to trim back the overhang which protrudes through the front of the bracket by around 4mm and which would otherwise foul the panel on which the bracket is required to rest. I'll post some images later.

Today will be focussed on trimming the body panels to the marked cut lines and perhaps making a trial fit. More photo's of that if all goes to plan.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: firefife on October 17, 2019, 09:49:11 AM
There is a picture of the windscreen wiper bracket on the one I sent you with the wiper motor on it
Title: Making progress but struggling with missing metalwork
Post by: argy on November 21, 2019, 10:01:34 AM
I'm back from a couple of weeks of winter sunshine and am cracking on with the project. Before going away I spent a lot of time on the bodywork. I have access to a large oven and managed to get all of the panels in and brought up to 50 - 60 centrigrade.

This provoked a lot of air bubbles to present themselves which have now been raked out, filled and rubbed down. Apart from the front section, all panels have been blocked with 120 grit paper and prepared with a DA to provide a key. All of this has been done as a  preliminary process, I expect the paint shop to go through all of the above, and more, before committing to paint.

Because my kit came with various bits and pieces missing I'm having to make my own brackets which is proving a challenge in the absence of dimensions so if there is anyone else out there that has a kit lying around and can send me photos and dimensions of the wiper motor bracket, seat belt brackets, fuel filler lowering plate and the bonnet catch plate I'd be very grateful.

In particular I'm struggling with the wiper motor bracket at this time. I suspect that it's a very tight fit under the wing. It looks like it slopes downward to the outside of the car which I expect is to help it to get under the wing. It's also unclear whether the motor mounting holes have been tapped or if there is a nut welded on to the back. I'm thinking here about future maintenance...
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: firefife on November 21, 2019, 10:14:18 AM
Argy, this is the bracket that the wiper motor bolts on to
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: firefife on November 21, 2019, 10:16:48 AM
And this is with the motor fitted in position, hope this helps
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on November 21, 2019, 02:41:08 PM
Thanks again for this, it's a lot clearer picture.

I've built a bracket this afternoon, can you tell me if the motor mounting holes are M6 tapped or M6 clear to take a nut and bolt?

I've built the side bar from 5mm mild steel and the cross bar / curved section from 3mm stainless. I've also added an additional fixing at the other end of the curved section to the engine bay bulkhead. Hopefully that wil do the trick.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: firefife on November 23, 2019, 09:58:14 AM
From memory (& mine isn't so good these days) I believe they were tapped. I guess either way would do though.

Any additional fixing or mounting can only be good

Good luck buddy
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: Mechman on December 30, 2019, 05:42:22 PM
Hi Argy, from your pic it looks like yours is an early kit like mine. The door and boot lock systems were changed later on. I did make mine work in the end but it took months! For the door handle system I would talk to Grass bank Conversations and don't cut any holes in the doors until you do. The tribute door system is a bit basic but it works with less disruption of the BMW door system.
Best of luck with your build.
Regards  Mechman.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on January 01, 2020, 04:30:56 PM
Hi Mechman,

Thanks for your comments but they've arrived a bit too late. Fortunately I have a working solution to the door opening issue. I've trawled other people's build diaries and with a bit of help from Grassbank Conversions I've got a good working solution.

The photo shows an earlier version of what I've done. Since then I've replaced the cable with something which is a bit more flexible and I've used aluminium ferrules from my local rope and cable merchants to crimp the cables rather than using the electrical crimp. The original cable was too rigid. Getting the balance between the desired action and applying tension when at rest was a challenge.

The original solution shown here works well except that the door locks won't open if there is any tension whatsoever on the door release mechanism. The problem only shows itself when you lock the doors with the central locking then try to open the doors again.

I bought 5m of 'soft' 1.0mm cable from ebay for a couple of quid (plenty left over if anyone needs some). This allowed me to have a tiny amount of slack before the door release mechanism moves and so avoids the lockout issue.

My kit didn't come with the oval shaped pieces which attach to the door release mechanism so I had to make my own. In the process I modded mine to allow me to loop the cable over an M6 bolt which is prevented from slipping off again with a penny washer and an M6 nyloc nut. This approach allows me to be able to easily remove the door handle if required.

What do your rear lights look like? I've got the MGB lights and am searching for a better solution similar to what the others got with their kits...

Russell
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: Mechman on January 05, 2020, 12:39:48 PM
Hi Argy,  my rear lights are also MGB  , but with  the lower part supplied by DNA. You need early B lamp and the lower part was 3D printed
I think the company that  did it for DNA was 3D print shop Ltd,  try them on 01179390631 or 07811355327. I think his name is  Mark Bryant. Good luck with it. Regards Mechman.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: Sir Percival on January 05, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Hi Mechman,

Thanks for your comments but they've arrived a bit too late. Fortunately I have a working solution to the door opening issue. I've trawled other people's build diaries and with a bit of help from Grassbank Conversions I've got a good working solution.

The photo shows an earlier version of what I've done. Since then I've replaced the cable with something which is a bit more flexible and I've used aluminium ferrules from my local rope and cable merchants to crimp the cables rather than using the electrical crimp. The original cable was too rigid. Getting the balance between the desired action and applying tension when at rest was a challenge.

The original solution shown here works well except that the door locks won't open if there is any tension whatsoever on the door release mechanism. The problem only shows itself when you lock the doors with the central locking then try to open the doors again.

I bought 5m of 'soft' 1.0mm cable from ebay for a couple of quid (plenty left over if anyone needs some). This allowed me to have a tiny amount of slack before the door release mechanism moves and so avoids the lockout issue.

My kit didn't come with the oval shaped pieces which attach to the door release mechanism so I had to make my own. In the process I modded mine to allow me to loop the cable over an M6 bolt which is prevented from slipping off again with a penny washer and an M6 nyloc nut. This approach allows me to be able to easily remove the door handle if required.

What do your rear lights look like? I've got the MGB lights and am searching for a better solution similar to what the others got with their kits...

Russell

Smart job on the door latch Argy, very similar to how I did mine.

Using the builders angle bracket helped by giving the extra leverage, and they have worked great from when I fitted them.

Mine not as smart as yours though, nice one.
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: Sir Percival on January 05, 2020, 12:57:58 PM
Hi Argy,  my rear lights are also MGB  , but with  the lower part supplied by DNA. You need early B lamp and the lower part was 3D printed
I think the company that  did it for DNA was 3D print shop Ltd,  try them on 01179390631 or 07811355327. I think his name is  Mark Bryant. Good luck with it. Regards Mechman.

This is very useful....A smashed back light has to be a worry when you don't know where to get a new lens cover...I will "file" this in case a Granny attacks the rear of my car in a Fiat 500  ;)
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on January 05, 2020, 10:04:03 PM
Thanks to both of you for the feedback. I'll be following up on the leads

Russell
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on January 07, 2020, 03:34:26 PM
For the sake of completeness, this is what my passenger side door handle mechanism ended up looking like.

Title: Oops, where can I get a replacement headlamp lens / cover ?
Post by: argy on January 09, 2020, 12:30:18 PM
As the subject says, my driver's side lens had a small accident with an angle grinder. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement?

It's beyond polishing...

Russell
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on January 09, 2020, 06:55:41 PM
Got that wrong, thankfully

I managed to polish it out, phew!
:-)
Title: Wiper motor wiring
Post by: argy on February 21, 2020, 05:03:56 PM
Hi,

My kit didn't come with any wiring harness / connectors so I'm having to work out how to connect the 4 wires that come from the Z3 bulkhead connector to the wiper motor's 5 way connector.

In the DNA 2Fifty video there is a clip which shows (at 25:43) the wiring for the 5 pin plug (see attached) but I don't see how that relates to the original wiring.

My original wiring consists of:
A. Brown (Looks like earth)
B. Brown / Green / Yellow (Looks like switched live and is thinner than the other wires)
C. Black / Red / Yellow
D. Black / White / Yellow

The Video shows the 5 pin connector as

1. Brown
2. Earth
3. Black & White
4. Green & Yellow
5. Black

Here I'm using the pin numbering protocol from the wiper motor manufacturer's data sheet (see attached)

The manufacturer (Car builder solutions) tells me that the motor wiring is:

1. Earth
2. When the wiper switch is in park mode this should connect to pin 5
3. Fast wipe
4. Switched live
5. Slow wipe

I understand that I have to run a long earth cable to one of the pins, but not sure which of the earths.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
Title: Re: Russell's 2fifty build
Post by: argy on February 22, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
Solved,

The problem was two fold.

1. Not knowing which coloured wire did what
2. Not knowing how the "clever" wiper system works

There are 4 wires from the original BMW Z3 / E36  and combinations of how these are paired together by the control system determines what the wiper motor does.

What I needed to know was where to connect each wire on the 5 terminal connector on the wiper motor and the answer is as follows. Please refer to the above photo for the connector pin numbers.

The Z3 wiring diagram shows the colours using German short codes, I've translated these into English full colours and then mapped what the original harness uses to what I had available. I've ordered a 5 pin Lucas plug from Car Builder Solutions and will use that rather than using the spade connectors once it arrives.

The photo below shows how I set about adding the extra earth to terminal 2 of the 5 pin connector which I think is a better solution that the long cable that the DNA video recommends.

So the colour scheme is

Pin 1. Earth BN (Brown) I stayed with Brown
Pin 2. Also earth. This is the cable that DNA suggest making long enough in case you need to remove the wiper motor in the future. I just coupled off pin 1 with another brown cable
Pin 3. This controls the fast wipe setting. SW/WS/GE (Black / White / Yellow) I went with Blue
Pin 4. Switched 12V from ignition. This is the thinner of the four cables BR/GN/GE (Brown / Green / Yellow) I went with Yellow / Green
Pin 5. This controls the normal speed wipe. SW/RT/GE (Black / Red / Yellow) I went with Grey

The second issue was the behaviour of the system, I had read (and ignored) somewhere else on the forum that the wiper system behaviour is speed dependent. At slow / stopped speeds intermittent position seems to stop and the first / normal speed seems to become intermittent. The second (Fast) speed behaves as normal. When I tested the wiper behaviour when the car was static it didn't behave as expected. When I lifted the car and got it in 2nd gear then it behaved as expected.

I hope this helps anyone else that struggles with this.

Russell