Author Topic: From the composit shop.  (Read 916 times)

Furrari

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From the composit shop.
« on: April 02, 2019, 10:59:03 AM »
I can't find my previous topic “ Fibreglass and stuff” so I’ll start a new topic which reflects more accurately the work it shows.  It’s a separate topic from “Furrari Build” as some of the work is a bit specific to composite work which not all our forum members are interested in.

Anybody with experience in composite (and anybody else) feel free to jump in and help me as most of this lot is made up as I go along on my journey in composite world.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 08:24:17 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 11:59:18 AM »
Following on from “Furrari Build”  I’ve removed the headlight.  Given DNAs foresight the headlight unit is retained by one 14mm nut accessed from the engine bay and the wiring is all on superseal plugs so it’s out in seconds.  First job is to cover the plastic cover with a layer of masking tape so I don’t scratch it or get epoxy on it.

Should I do a wet lay up or vacuum bag?  Looking at it I realised that nether of these will work so I’m going to have to try something different and that I’ve never heard of being done, a hanging screen.

Second job is to cut a piece of CF bigger than you need and give it a LIGHT coat of adhesive.  This stops it fraying.  Give it 10 or 15 mins to flash off.  Then cut it to shape where it meets the cover.

On to the epoxy resin.  I gave the relevant surface a coat of black epoxy resin.  When this reached the beta stage ( tacky but doesn’t come off on your fingers) I put a layer of clear resin about 1/2” wide on the lip just below the start of the plastic cover and put the CF on it, and wetted this out.  Left it to cure.

When this reached the beta stage I removed the first couple of rows of masking tape so ithe resin doesn’t bond to the tape or the plastic cover.

That’s it for now, given the current ( in CF terms) low temperature I’ll give this a couple of days to fully cure (and give me more time to figure out how to do it).

As I’m making this up as I go wish me luck.  No pics as it’s only a pile of masking tape and a bit of CF sitting in a heap.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 12:21:39 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 08:41:37 PM »
As the 1/2” strip of epoxy and CF had cured I moved on.  I dropped the headlight back in, poked the CF down past the edge of the surround area, marked and cut it.  The 1/2” land on the headlight is not vertical but at bit of angle so it slopes inwards and only hangs vertically after this.  I’ve used CAD/CAM (cardboard aided design and manufacturing) to make some, if they were metal you would call angle brackets.  I taped a couple of these to the surround and the now vertical face of the CF with about about an inch between them.  I wetted out in between the tape and the brackets and left it to cure.

When this epoxy had cured to the dry end of the beta stage I removed the brackets and tape so it doesn’t bond to the CF.  We'll see in the morning to see how it looks.  It’s not complete flat as the 1/2” land changes shape as it follows the shape of the headlight unit.

No pics 'cos all you can see is a headlight covered in masking tape. 
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 12:47:32 PM »
Just a pic of the CF on the side of the headlight.

A bit I missed was masking up for about 200 yards around the headlight, positioning the skirt into place and give it a coat of adhesive so I could put masking tape on it and remove it without pulling threads of CF off.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 12:50:35 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2019, 12:53:02 PM »
More from the Composite Shop.

I’ve got one ore two ideas I want to put on the car, but I want to experiment first.  How to do these things are not on YouTube.

First the former.  I will be using ABS to give me the shape I want, but it’s only 2mm thick, so how do I join it together.  Tried super glue.  Total failure.  Tried acetone.  Almost total failure.  So I made up a slurry of scrap ABS and acetone and used that.  Almost worked and with a bit of triangle shape as reinforcement, success.  I think having it as a slurry it fills in any small voids from the sanding, giving more surface to bond.

Then to vacuum bagging.  Due to its shape it has to be vacuum bagged but following all the rules on how to do this has given me mixed results, and I’ve never been able to draw more than 60% vacuum which is not enough for this application.  Instead of using the approved bonding stuff (a bit like window seal stuff) I held the bagging down with the engineers go-to.  Gaffa tape.  Well what a difference.  90% vacuum and the bag pulled straight down, only a small leak from the vacuum pipe and I think I know how to fix this next time.

So it’s all sorted.  Err, no.  After running for about an hour the pump is to hot too touch and there’s smoke coming out of the exhaust port.  The CF forum shows this is not unusual with Chineseum pumps, but industrial units are between four and five times the price.
I’ve ordered a fan and I’ve got lots of foam board to I’ll make up some ducting to blow cold air onto the pump.

I’m reasonably happy with the product I got out but I think I can improve on it if I can run the pump longer.  The sample will be on test this weekend at Chetwind Park so we'll see how it performs before we go for the full scale bits.
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 11:44:59 AM »
Fan arrived and ducting made ( no pics, 'cos it’s not pretty).  I decided to wire the fan into the pump switch.  What I learnt from this is that unplugging the soldering iron does not isolate the pump.  That made me jump, but it’s not the first time I’ve joined myself to the mains.  Will I never learn.
I’ve checked the oil in the pump and there is no signs of burning, the oil is still clear and the oil mist doesn’t smell of burnt oil so I can only assume it’s oil vapour not not burnt oil.  If my fan arrangement doesn’t solve the mist problem I’ll have to build a catch tank to filter the exhausting oil mist.  Not a big job and won’t require me to work with mains electric so I’ll be safe.

Anyway the test piece looks very good now that I can hold a decent vacuum, but I’m still not 100% happy with it on the vertical face, but the horizontal surfaces are really impressive.  After the show at Chetwynd Park this weekend I’ll try putting a 45 degree bevel on the vertical face and re-skin it.  I’m optimistic that I can achieve the overall finish I’m looking for.  It’s a long slow job, and a steep learning curve, but with the warmer weather it should reduce curing times from 2-3 days down to 1.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 12:10:10 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 12:03:28 PM »
Well, did the carbon fibre test piece work over the entire weekend?  Not entirely.  On the West Coast there are two “ box sections” to stiffen the front panel.  It was one of these I was using to locate the test piece but it’s a bit tight to fit the test piece as it makes it difficult to close the bonnet and there is a witness mark on the underside of the bonnet inner skin so rather than risk any damage that idea needs revision.

I’ve spoken to Brian and he said I could reduce the height of the rib things or even remove them if I replace the strength in the front panel.

So that’s the next iteration of the job.  We’ll get there in the end and the test piece did look good in the sun.  With the warmer weather I’m hoping the CF will cure quick enough.
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 11:22:46 AM »
These are the things I’m on about.

In the second pic you may be able to see there was a bond width of about an inch (that’s 25mm in the colonies and other foreign parts).  I’ll pack round this area with baby poo and let it set before I cut the other side away so not to weaken the front.  The rubber bonnet/engine bay seal has been removed to save it getting damaged.  It just slides back onto the flange at the back of the flat area.  It’s already been off several times to get the ABS panel to fit.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 12:31:58 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 12:20:10 PM »
Well that’s the two rib/box members off.  The FG is very thick and solid, it’s taken two multitool blades to do it and it’s made the front panel under the bonnet look a right mess.  Not worried as it will all be covered by the cf.  Well why isn’t the new CF panel in place.
I’m glad you asked that.
 Firstly with the ribs out of the way the centre section is too short so I’ve made a new one.
Secondly, some jobs just keep getting bigger.  Directly behind the FG front is a steel crossmember come radiator support which is held on by three bolts at end.  Looking at this it definitely needs CF'ing as well, but when the new CF panel is on you won’t be able to get at the bolts (you can’t get at two on each side anyway as they are under the FG front panel). With a couple of shows on consecutive weekends it will have to wait a bit, the cut panel will just get a bit of paint on for now.

That’s the way some jobs go, you start them and then you see other jobs that need doing first, but it will look good when it’s finished.
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 12:02:36 PM »
That’s all three bits of the front panel bonded together ready for CF but that won’t be for a bit.  So that I only have to give the composite shop a good clean once I’ve moved on to the next bit.

It’s always been a feature/problem that the rear parcel shelf and the original boot lid fit together but the new, over boot lid (if that’s a proper description) and the rear quarter panels have a large gap round them because of the outside stying and the Merc interior are different.  So I’m going to have a go at making a rear parcel shelf that mates the Merc bit and the Furrari bit.  Trying to get it to work with the folding roof bit is beyond my skill level so this will be designed to drop in when the roof is down at shows.

As the other projects from the composite shop I will be posting it as I do it so you’ll see all the errors so if anybody has any ideas or comments jump in.

I hope there will be more pics for this project as there’s more to see ( and room for more errors.)
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 02:26:09 PM »
This is what I’m on about.  The corner bits aren’t there because of problems with the hydraulics struggling to lift the weight of the original boot lid and the over boot lid.

Pic 1). The gap between the over boot lid and the rear parcel shelf.  At its narrowest it’s 24/25mm.

Pic 2). The shape of the corner where the overboot and the quarter panel meet.  This is taken looking to the rear of the car.How am I going to do this? Don’t know yet but I’ll shape the middle bit first and worry about the rest later.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:51:57 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 08:04:40 PM »
First job.  Make a card board template.  From this I’ve made a foam board template.  I did this because the foam board is 2mm thick, the same as the ABS I’m going to use.  It’s also more stable and accurate to use as the final template.

The ABS will follow the line of the gap between the trim and the roll bar and the joint will be covered in a rubber T shaped extrusion to neaten it up.  The back edge goes under the upper boot lid which traps it and will give this section its final shape.

One problem I’m having is that I used tyre black on the parcel shelf before the last show and now not even Gaffa tape will stick to it.

Just a pic of the template.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 08:17:41 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 12:38:48 PM »
I now used the foam board template to make a pair wooden formers.  I only had one piece of 12mm ply big enough so the second one is only about 2/3 the correct length but this won’t matter.
After cutting the wooden former I checked that the leading edge was the correct shape ( it was) I haven’t cut the back edge.
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

kalifornia

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 01:20:10 PM »
Hi Mick

I might be interested in one of those

Furrari

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Re: From the composit shop.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2019, 07:54:56 PM »
Kal.  I’d see the final result before you say you want one.  If I don't like it it will be in the bin.

Using the ply wood as a template I marked out on the ABS sheet where the rollbar/parcel shelf join is, then drew another line 50mm on the inside of that as a cut line which I then cut with a jig saw.  From this I cut towards the first, or template line about 1” to 1.5” apart. I should say that before I made these cuts I tried heat gun bending first.  This didn’t go well as I got a wrinkled shape.  I used the wooden templates to trap/clamp the ABS and used the heat gun to bend the “fingers” down at 90 degrees.  The 2” long fingers look a bit long but I can easily shorten them later.  Test fitted it and it does fit.  I used the foam board to cut the bit that goes under the boot lid.  If you leave it too long the ABS panel bows, so you just cut a bit more off.  You can also open the boot lid and mark it from the edge of the parcel shelf

Pic 1). The “fingers” bent down.

Pic 2). The panel dropped in place.

I don’t know what that white patch on the pics is across the panel, it’s not there “live.”
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 08:07:08 PM by Furrari »
Not all problems can be solved with gaffer tape.  For those there is WD40.
Not even gaffer tape can fix stupid, but it can mask the sound.

If you can’t buy it or steal it you have to make it.

 

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